Virtue and Vice

   Submitted by twoathome on May 15, 2008 - 9:27pm.    

I was involved in a discussion about “vice and virtue” the other day, and it provided an amazing opportunity for self-reflection among the participants, as well as a surprisingly candid conversation.

Just for fun, I thought I would pose the question that opened this discussion to the wise and witty women of this board. I don’t mean to start a debate or a catfight. Neither do I mean to offend anyone with this question. I just thought the question was interesting enough that it might provide opportunity for a respectful, insightful discussion here. (And, just as a side note, I don’t think you necessarily have to approach this question from a “religious” perspective, as these are pretty abstract and universal concepts.)

So here goes: You’ve probably heard of the “seven deadly sins” and the “seven heavenly virtues”. If you had to choose one (or more) from each list that most challenges you or most aptly describes you, which would you choose?? Why??

The Seven Heavenly Virtues:
faith, hope, charity, fortitude, justice, temperance, prudence

The Seven Deadly Sins: pride, envy, gluttony, lust, anger, greed, sloth


psveal's picture
Submitted by psveal on May 15, 2008 - 9:48pm.

Hmmm … interesting topic.
I think that I would have to say gluttony is my biggest challenge because I need to lose weight. And temperance is a challenge, too. (Not that the rest of them aren’t a bit of a challenge, too!) Faith & fortitude are probably the least I struggle with.

twoathome's picture
Submitted by twoathome on May 15, 2008 - 9:53pm.

I'll go first. (Okay, psveal, you beat me by four minutes!) ; )
While I certainly struggle with all of the "seven deadlies," I'm probably most challenged by pride and gluttony. When it comes to pride, I often let my sense of "self" get in the way of being a kinder, more compassionate, understanding and loving person. When it comes to gluttony, well, I just love to eat. I don't binge or anything, I just don't always put the fork down when I should, and I can't resist something that has chocolate in it!
As for the virtues, I wish I were more virtuous on a daily basis. Again, I exhibit them all at some point or another, though certainly not as often or with the intensity I would like to. I'm probably best at justice and fortitue, as I tend to be a pretty vocal, tenacious, strong-willed person who is really passionate about "justice for all." I struggle, daily, with faith, hope, and charity -- always a bit of a doubter, I am. And my mother could tell you that temperance and prudence are practically foreign concepts for me. I don't temper my words, I'm not always prudent in my decision making, and there are many times I can just be a tactless, loud-mouthed dork.
Okay, I've bared my soul. Anyone else willing??

Momof3girlies's picture
Submitted by Momof3girlies on May 15, 2008 - 10:02pm.

I have a lot of hope, but I struggle with faith. I question my faith when bad things happen to innocent people. I feel like I lack fortitude and along with that struggle with sloth. I could do so much more in a day at home, I just can't get my butt going.

I am a charitable person, I would give the shirt off my back if it would help someone. I wish I had more to give.

elezimo's picture
Submitted by elezimo on May 15, 2008 - 10:43pm.

So yea I don't even know that I view any of these as religious just the way I always thought the "good people" lived. I have known people that I hear "I wish" from alot and I do not feel they are being ungrateful but sometimes when I wish things were easier I think my self greedy and ungrateful especially lately. I am going through a divorce and I got the house yea me. And the morgage that comes with it not so much yea me. I do keep reflecting on this lately and I realize things are a little tight but I am doing it and I think to myself wow "Amanda you have more than most people could dream of yet you want for more?" I too have a weight problem and I watch biggest loser and I think I could do that "if I wanted to" but the truth is I am the picture of greed, sloth, envy, anger (mainly at myself) and gluttony. I do hope that fit any of the virtues but the seven deadlies seem to hold me back from being virtuious in practice rather than just in my head but if I had to pick one I would say temperance I try to to ralize that everyone every where has thier own "stuff" going on and everyone is only trying to look out for thier own.

Sheila L's picture
Submitted by Sheila L on May 15, 2008 - 10:57pm.

Oh my goodness.....I have to say with the virtues I am lacking in the faith department, faith in myself, faith in God, faith in justice and faith in people in general....prior to this past year and a half I took people at their word, believed God knew all and would make everything "right", I had great faith in my decisions as a parent...now I just don't know that I have faith in anything so to speak...I don't have faith in people at all anymore, I feel like God abandoned me in my greatest time of need (though I keep looking for the one set of footprints in the sand, I just don't see them yet) and I haven't been able to go back to church, I question every single decision I have ever made as a parent and I have absolutely NO faith that justice even exists.

As for sins; I think the only ones I am not guilty of (at least on a constant daily basis, let's face it we are all guilty at one time or another!) are envy and greed....I don't envy anyone because everyone has issues even if they aren't public and I am definately not a greedy person, I give until I am beyond broke; emotionally, spiritually and financially. Anger would probably be the one I would have picked for right now, I am angry over many things in my life that I just can't seem to let go of yet (I personally think this goes hand in hand with my lack of faith right now).....so there is the ugly truth about me, as out there as it gets.

~ Sheila's Sweet Treats ~ Elegant Wedding Cakes and Desserts for all Occasions! http://community.webshots.com/user/missyvixen1217?vhost=community

staceyt's picture
Submitted by staceyt on May 16, 2008 - 12:28am.

What the heck its midnight I have to work at 8 so why not deeply reflect upon myself.

Faith. I am with most that have posted on this one. I am ye of little faith. I dont believe/trust a thing I hear or see anymore. Everything that has been told/taught to me I question now. I find it quite hard to believe in anyone and what they promise or do. I question my Faith in God daily from all the pain and suffering i see or hear of others having to endure. He only gives you what you can handle but what happens when its the last little bit that you can handle? What happens than? Does He take it all away or let you break? How much is to much? I want to trust and have the faith but I just cant stop questioning.

Anger: Its part of me and I am part of it. Has always been that way and more than likely always will be. I handle it better some days than others but its still there. Gleaming is embers waiting for the next time it can flare up. I hate my anger and it makes me even angrier when I find my self erupting. I used to kick walls, headbutt walls, scream, throw things, drive fast, smoke way to much, say way to many cuss words. Now I still yell, I still say way to many cuss words including my own made up run em all together along with some other things thrown in there, taught my kids what to say when you have a dork in front of you driving like its a 10mph zone "DRIVE IT LIKE YOU OWN IT", I still have a major desire to throw things and kick things but it hurts and I dont want to fix what i break, I admit to smoking when I am really really really angry but only one............right after another. They say the ADHD meds I am on will take care of this and it has to a point but once it wears off in the evening its like the sceen from poltergeist "It's Baaaaack"

Thank you Nicole for posting this.

Erica's picture
Submitted by Erica on May 16, 2008 - 7:32am.

I have always believed in the "god can only give you what you can handle" line, but am finding myself not believing so much anymore. If that is the case, what about the people who commit suicide, they obviously couldn't handle what god gave them (not trying to start a debate here just me questioning my own faith)
Listen to your heart, it whispers softly so listen closely.

Erica's picture
Submitted by Erica on May 16, 2008 - 7:27am.

For the heavenly virtues, I would chose hope. I believe hope is what drives people, without it, it would be a pretty depressing world. For the deadly sins I would chose greed. This is something I am trying to keep in check here. I am just one of those people who always wants more!
Listen to your heart, it whispers softly so listen closely.

sandravh's picture
Submitted by sandravh on May 16, 2008 - 8:06am.

I believe we are all a work in progress and will never be finished. I have read the previous posts and my heart goes out to so many of you......but I applaud you that you had the strength to sit down and right what you did write. The realization of our own 'issues' is the first step for recovery....does that make sense? I am not thinking badly of anyone...
Anyway...now on to myself. I do HAVE ISSUES!! I struggle every day with each any ever one of the deadly sins. I pray every day that God help deliver me over my addiction with food, help me overcome my desires of wanting more materials things, give me the drive to declutter the crap out of the house, and control my thoughts (anger) with people in my life along with many other requests.
As far as the virtues go.....I have experienced first had how God rewards a charitable heart....when you give, He does give back, my faith has grown thru this and other things. The current economy has forced me to be more prudent and the monthly budget is examined daily. Temperance is required with three small boys in the house.
We will never live in a perfect earthly world, and we are all humans....being aware of our faults and weaknesses makes us all better people in the end.
Sandra

twoathome's picture
Submitted by twoathome on May 16, 2008 - 8:32am.

Wow! I am constantly reassured by the stunning and eloquent honesty of so many of the wise women of this forum. Perhaps this will sound selfish, but it gives me hope to know that I am not alone in facing my "demons" when I read such honest and heartfelt responses. My heart goes out to so many, here, too, and, I agree, Sandra, that all this is part of living in an imperfect, earthly world.
The older I get, the more I see the benefits of living a "balanced" life -- regardless of how often I fail to accomplish this goal. While I struggle daily with the "sins", I am heartened in my attempt to balance those by practicing the "virtues" in purposeful and intentional ways. Perhaps this is what struck me so about the original ocnversation I had on this topic, that there is a balance to be achieved here. I don't expect myself to be perfect -- none of us are or ever will be on this planet -- but I can work for balance. I can work to be more virtuous and less "toxic" each day. And just being conscious of that possibility is a step in the right direction.
Thanks for the responses, ladies!

mom of 5's picture
Submitted by mom of 5 on May 16, 2008 - 10:33am.

I would say that for the deadly sins mine are gluttony, and pride. I really love to eat, it eat way too much every single day. I need self control in this area big time. Pride, especially sprirtual pride is a stumbling block for me. Not always in the big scheme of things, I don't walk around thinking I'm better than everybody, but in intimate matters. I can be hard to live with, I hold my husband up to standards that are mine to deal with and not his. I also get on my high horse with issues that are close to my heart.

As far as virtues go, hope is my strong point. I can find hope in any situation. I am a great friend because I share hope with others. I also have a very strong faith, in God and others. I see the good in others to a fault sometimes. Everyone has bad things about them, but I sincerely believe that most people have far more good than bad. Sometimes we just need to have the eyes to see them.

twoathome's picture
Submitted by twoathome on May 16, 2008 - 3:11pm.

Oh, girl, I'm with you on the "high horse" thing. Someday I'll take a tumble BIG time -- probably break a hip in the process. I've been told (by my husband) that I just use my "teacher voice" too much. I HONESTLY don't mean to sound rude or arrogant or "holier than thou" when I comment about things, but I do think I come off that way sometimes. They always say that the things that bother you about OTHER people, are realy a reflection of something you don't like about yourself. I know this is true with me. I can't stand arrogant, rude, bossy, "holier than thou" people -- so I know I'm paranoid about my own tendency to be this way. It really is something I don't like about myself -- among MANY other things.
I can tell that you are a hopeful person from so many of your previous posts. What a blessing that is to your family and others.
Two virtues I'm really trying to develop more consciously are hope and grattitude. I just have so much to be thankful for, and there is so much in the world that needs more hope! I've tried Oprah's method of listing five things I'm thankful for each evening when I go to bed. Perhaps I should try the same with a "hope" list.

Sheila L's picture
Submitted by Sheila L on May 16, 2008 - 3:29pm.

I wish y'all would stop reading my mind...it's freakin' me out! -Sheila walks away, shaking her head, pondering life and all the wonders that come with it-

~ Sheila's Sweet Treats ~ Elegant Wedding Cakes and Desserts for all Occasions! http://community.webshots.com/user/missyvixen1217?vhost=community