Against mental illness drugs for kids/adults

Did anyone else just see those pigs that flew over Sioux Falls or did they just go over my house???

Well said, twoathome, thank you!

I've been seeing a lot of those piglets lately!
This is actually one of my favorite things about this site -- it helps me realize just how complex and multi-faceted people are -- and how important it is to get to know people's individual stories before attempting to put someone "in a box" -- something I am guilty of far too often. I've found myself in a "virtual tangle" with so many women of this site, only to turn around and COMPLETELY agree with them a few threads later!
Isn't the world a cool and complicated place??

I always say that the world would be a very boring place if we all had the same tastes, values or opinions.

Very well said, Nichole. I was going to say more but anything I type is going to be right in line with what you have already said, so I will leave it at that :)

Thanks, I'm taking the weekend off to attack, ummm I mean errrr visit, my hubby who hasn't been home in almost a month but I will be here all week! LOL

mmm mmm mmmm have fun, Sheila!

I must say Twoathome put it very succinctly. While I am sure that medications are prescribed all too often inappropriately, they do have their place and in the right setting can completely turn someone around. Mental illness is not a farce and is very very real for many people. My mother suffers from bi-polar and manic depressive disorders. Looking back at my early childhood, I think she has for a very long time. Medications don't cure these disorders, but they can help people to function if prescribed properly.

That's all I have to say about that!

very well said my daughter was "dignosed" with ADD and they put her on meds I at home had no issue but it was at school were the issues were she wasnt staying on task. Well to make a long story short the was the worst thing I have ever done was putting her on those meds now dont get me wrong I have a friend who has really bad depression and needs meds and is wonderful different person on them but the meds they put my daughter on werent for her and I personally came to know she doesnt need them I have been working with her teacher and with her every day so she wont require them. while on them she never ate and cried all the time. It was awful

I was diagnosed with ADHD just a few weeks ago. I literly cried when I was diagnosed because it put a name with all the symptoms I have had since I was a child. To think of all the years I suffered in silence with my lack of inattention, easily fustrated, impulsivity, not biting my tounge when I should and know better, and the constant wandering at work and at home. The DR put me on a low dose of Adderall to get me through the work day and it has done WONDERS beyond all hope I had given it. At home I am my Attention problem person again but at work I am normal like all the other people. I get so much more done.

I truely wish someone would have recognized the symptoms in me when I was younger it would have saved me the lifetime of struggle I had endured.

I believe a DR isnt just going to prescribe a drug to get you out of his office and out of their hair. I believe if they recomend it but give other options of course try the other options first but sometimes medication is all that can and will fix an option.

Please know that I want to believe that most doctors won't just prescribe a drug to get you out of their office, but there are some that will. A child I know was put on some pretty heavy-duty meds after the first 15 minutes that he met the child, basically on the recommendation of the teacher. Very ugly situation! I just want you to understand that it does happen.

Good for you and not stopping without help!! I am so glad to hear that things are working out for you. I have suffered from depression for years myself. I was consistantly told to snap out of it, but it doesnt work, not like meds do. Dont give up the hope!

I havent as a child i was constantly told to JUST TRY HARDER or PAY ATTENTION and I would understand. I would try so hard. Its hard to explain but the constant thoughts/chatter in my head would pull me in different directions. I droped out of high school with one semester left to graduate because I couldnt handle it anymore. I did go and get my GED before I would have even graduated but I spent the next 11 years job hopping because I would get bored or fustrated and up and quit. Another thing not commonly known is the impulsivity that manifested its way into my check book. I have/had no problem taking my entire paycheck and blowing it on whatever I wanted with no cares about paying bills and as such has given me the wonderful mountian of debt that no one my age should have. It has ruined relationships because I take things the wrong way and get EXTREEMLY defensive over any slight critisim or suggestion. I have read things people say with an entirely different meaning and blow up.

I was tested with two different tests for ADHD also tested for BiPolar and OCD because the symptoms run hand in hand. I have read countless info (while on meds otherwise i wouldnt care/remember it) and have started applying things into my daily life to make it more managable. I couldnt tell you how many times I have forgotten Tuesday is garbage day. :) Or how many times to send my child with lunch money for school because other things pulled me in other directions. I love my kids and wouldnt do a thing to harm them i would just become distracted on the task at hand or tell myself ohh I will do that next and completely forget.

I have noticed such a dramatic difference in life these past two weeks now knowing what afflicts me and what needs to be done to keep me on track. Its not the meds alone its all the other stuff that goes along with the diagnosis.

I sent DH some of the info and he was shocked and said "It explains alot" I thank him for continuing to stand with me and help me work towards being a real person that can handle situations and life correctly.

Anyone want any old clothes I finally cleaned my closet out after 5 years this Saturday. LOL :)

Beyourself, have you really NEVER met anyone with such a serious mental illness that they were seriously debilitated by its effects??
My eldest brother is bipolar & manic depressive, and he refuses to take his medication much of the time. He can't hold a job; he's lost all of his friends over trivial issues to which he had violent over-reactions; his wife left him. Sadly, when he stays on his meds, he's fine, but between his lack of health insurance and the belief that "he's just fine" without the drugs, he has lost most of the things that were once very important to him. He's currently in his fifties and living in my parents' basement, and who knows how long they will be able to live with his unbelivable mood swings and erratic behavior.
My college roommate's mother was a paranoid schizophrenic. She would talk to herself, hear voices, and do strange things like put black make-up all over her face and hang out at the airport begging for money. Again, when she was on her meds, she was fine, but, like many people with mental illness, she would get "better" to the point that she thought she could handle life without the drugs. No doubt folks, like yourself, who are out there declaring mental illness a "farce" didn't help, either.
As a former teacher, I know, first hand, that there there are all shapes, sizes, and types of kids, with all kinds of personalities and quirks. Do I think all these children should act/learn/speak/believe the same things?? Of course not!! I don't want STEPFORD KIDS any more than I want to be a STEPFORD wife (which, if you knew me, would be a laughable concept).
However, when I have a student who is so debilitated with panic that they can't get out of bed in the morning, or one that is hearing voices in his Rice Krispies, or one who literally can not stop him or herself from violently attacking another student or a teacher, then BRING ON THE MEDS! These are not just "natural differences" in their moods. They are serious chemical imbalances that seriously impair the child's ability to function. They deserve whatever help medical technology can afford them.

I think it is truly sad that the kids are helpless as to what gets ingested into their bodies. Basically these drugs are "speed" disguised with a different name. I really just wanted to put out feelers to see if anyone else is very against these drugs that are pushed on these kids.

Here is what I think:

The schools/teachers don't want to deal with kids who are extremely energetic. They want calm controllable kids.

When a child has a tantrum that goes on for hours and hours most parents think it has gone on too long and don't want to deal with this behavior over and over again.

No one seems to spend the hours/days/weeks/months/years to deal with behavior that is deemed disruptive. So many parents want a "quick fix", or are fooled by the "school experts" who say something is wrong with your child.

As far as adults go, when you overdose your brain with seratonin of course on the outside it will appear you are able to "deal" with things better. Why do you think it is so dangerous to get off of these drugs once you are on them. You are basically in a withdrawal process and the body is put in a depletion level. When the body is getting megadoses of "happy" chemicals flooding the brain when it drops I would think suicidal thoughts would be common.

Try to take the time and find out WHY and WHO you are before you believe every negative/depressed/unhappy thought means that something is wrong. We are a mix of all emotions and it is wise to try and live with the depressed parts also. I would bet most people have REASONS why they feel the way they do. Explore REASONS and don't cover emotions with drugs. I think our society lacks true emotional bonding with others.

First of all, I respect that you have very strong opinions on this topic, and I don't suspect we will ever fully agree. I do, however, want to mention a couple of things:

School teachers and officials will almost NEVER directly suggest the use of behavior drugs. It is, I believe, against the law for them to make this direct suggestion, as neither teachers nor school officials have the medical expertise to diagnose a mental illness. They CAN however, be very honest about behaviors they notice while the child is in school. They can -- and need to, in my opinion-- also be very honest with parents about whether these behaviors are seriously debilitating for the child while they are in school. In the end, however, ONLY PARENTS AND MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS CAN MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT MEDICATING A CHILD, so please stop trying to blame teachers and "school experts" for decisions that ultimately fall to parents and doctors. I, for one, am not willing to lie about a child's behavior just to spare the feelings of his or her parents. I am also, however, completely willing to help the child in whatever way the parent sees fit -- whether or not that involves medication.
Do I think that every child who is hyperactive needs drugs?? Of course I don't. My own sister was one of those students who was more likely to be sitting on top of the desk, or under the desk, or flipping over the desk, than she was to be sitting in her chair. Thankfully, she had great, patient teachers who realized she needed to move around a lot, and she is living a long, happy, drug-free life.
In fact, in my years as a teacher, medication was often a LAST RESORT for modifying behaviors. The elementary teachers I knew used a lot of different strategies and techniques to help children control their behaviors before medication was ever an option. For many kids, these strategies worked to help them channel excess energy, focus their attention, or control overzealous behaviors (hitting, biting, etc.).
THERE ARE CASES, however, where these behavior modification strategies are not enough. There ARE people whose brain chemistries are mixed up, just like a cancer patient's blood make up might be mixed up, or a athsmatic's lungs don't work the way they should. These are physical, biochemical differences in brain chemistry that can not be managed with simple "do it yourself" therapies. As with any other ILLNESS, they should have every available option to help them live normal lives.
I have to mention, that after reading your last post, that you remind me so much of a wonderful man I went to high school with. He is highly intelligent, and trained as a chiropractor who believes whole-heartely in natural therapies. He also harbors the belief that all pharmaceudicals are bad, and that drug companies are basically trying to poison us for a profit. He is open and honest about having bipolar disorder. He even wrote an open letter to our hometown newspaper about his mental illness, a task for which I give him great respect. In this letter, he chose to "inform" the public about the dangers of behavior modifying drugs and told the entire town of his plans to treat his illness by natural measures only. Shortly after he wrote this letter, he defaulted on several large loans he had taken out from local banks against his local chiropractic business in order to build a large stage in the middle of a forty acre cornfield. (I'm still not sure what the stage was supposed to be for.) His wife left him because, in one of his manic periods, he became very violent with her and their son. His business went under, and not becuase he didn't have patients, but because he literally stopped showing up to treat them. Eventually, he left town, divorced and bankrupt, and hasn't been heard from since.
I'm just not sure the natural therapies worked for his "natural" mood swings.

Hmmm families that don't want to take the time to work with the kids??? I agree in some cases that may very well be true. However I have a 10 year old little brother that my mom adopted, he has been with us since he was 18 months. My mom was forced to quit her job and stay home with him because of all of the behavioral issues that came along with his fetal alcohol, ADD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, and OCD. Nobody could stand to take care of him because of the frequent 3 hour long screaming fits that went on because he was overstimulated from all of the activity going on in daycare or preschool. Let alone the fact the he had no concept of cause and effect so it's no big deal for him to take off and climb out the 2nd story window of the house onto the roof and jump off in the middle of the night then to stand on the side of the road and wait for a car to come and run out in front of it so it has to slam on the breaks to avoid hitting him. Or to take off and run away from school in the middle of the day and run a mile to pizza hut to get a pizza. Off of his meds the tiniest noises, smells, or activites can trigger him and overstimulate his little brain and drive him crazy to the point all he can do is sit there screaming and crying to make it stop, he is impulsive and dangerous at times because he is unable to concentrate and make a good decision it's impossible for him to think things through. On his meds he is a perfect little child that is excellent at math and enjoys reading, he can concentrate on a story and is able to stop and think about something before he does it even though he still may not make the right choice he is able to tell you he realizes it was wrong. He is so happy when he is on his meds he has friends and people enjoy being around him. Off his meds he is confused and angry all the time and doesn't understand why. My mom has spent so much time fighting for him to have some sort of a normal life her neighbors have told her she needs to sell her house and move out in the country so Josh can run around all he wants because he will never "fit in" in society. This coming from a retired elementary science teacher. He has been excluded and brushed off by so many people in his 10 years because of his behaviors I can't imagine taking him off his meds to make his behaviors worse. If anything it's worth it just for the simple reason that he is a much happier little boy with them.

***Nobody said life would be easy, they just promised it would be worth it***

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The meds cause the problems? Hmmmm seems to me that my DD had the problems FIRST, then the meds to help the problems.....You have never met an adult that has had a normal life when taking these drugs, I can actually believe that as MOST of them will never lead what you would consider a "normal" life, but they lead a FUNCTIONING life that they would not be able to without meds. The kids don't benefit from the meds? You are so entirely misinformed and just really don't know what you are talking about, I hope you never have a loved one with a mental illness, it takes a mind stronger than you appear to have to get through it.

~ Sheila's Sweet Treats ~ Elegant Wedding Cakes and Desserts for all Occasions! http://community.webshots.com/user/missyvixen1217?vhost=community

I'm not ignoring anything, and I'm fully aware of how powerful a teacher's comments can be for a parent. I actually agree with you, to a point. There are certainly people out there who take lots of pills that are probably not completely warranted by their symptoms. This is part of the reason behavior modification strategies and other non-chemical therapies are effective treatments for many people who don't want or need drug therapy.
I also agree that parents absolutely need to question and do their research regarding treatments for their children, no matter where their information is coming from. Parents know their children best, and, most often, will do what they think is best for them. More often than not, teachers are willing to work with parents who are making these very tough decisions. For every student I had on medication, I had another whose parents didn't want them on meds. We did the best we could to help these students cope with the demands of school, and most parents who were adamantly opposed to the use of behavior drugs, were also willing to acknowledge that they would likely spend a few more meetings in the principal's office, and make a few more trips to school to pick up a child who was not able to function in school for the day.
My real issue here is that you seem to be making a VAST OVERGENERALIZATION when it comes to the subject of mental illness. By claiming both childhood and adult mental illness to be a "farce" you have only reinforced years of negative stereotyping that prevent seriously ill people from seeking treatment. I would hope even you would recognize that someone like Andrea Yates, who in a psychotic break with reality, drowned her four children, is suffering from a serious illness that might benefit from pharmaceutical treatment. I realize that Andrea Yates' situation is a far cry from "Johnny who can't stop moving around in his desk", and I agree that Johnny probably doesn't need lithium. However, by lumping all "mental illness" under the category of "farce" you have done a serious and disrespectful disservice to those who struggle with very REAL and very DIFFICULT mental illnesses every day.
I worked primarily in middle and high schools, and I have seen some students cope quite successfully without medications and others who lived much happier, more confident, more productive lives while taking medication. As with any medical treatment, these have to be individual decisions, made for individual students, in individual circumstances. They are not, as your unequivocal "drugs are bad" theory suggests, categorically right or wrong, black or white issues.

That is my point:
First, you have kids taking drugs so as to not cause a disruption in school. Do you honestly believe that is why a child should take ADD/ADHD drugs?
Second, the public is being duped, and I mean seriously. The drug companies are laughing all the way to the bank with billions of dollars in their pockets.
It doesn't only happen with "mental illness" drugs, but for every common symptom that people experience when they feel sick.
People need to have people to TALK to and to understand when they have very emotional problems come up in their life. I do believe people can have some very tough times and feel "way out of whack".
But usually I hear people throwing these terms around about bipolar, schizophrenia, and depression, like it's a common cold.
This is way too serious of an issue (the taking of all these pills) to just blindly swallow some pills and think it's going to all be better.

Boy you guys are going to learn a few closely guarded facts in my life in the next few sentances.

Because I was not given help/direction at a young age I cannot mulitply anything higher than ones and fives. Fives only because i count by five until i get to where I need to be. I spent countless hours out in the hallway because I couldnt sit still or would disrupt the class in other ways. I was a child left behind if we want to put the Bush act title on it. If ONE teacher had said something or suggested something to help me learn in a different way than the rest of the class boy oh boy I would be the lawyer I wanted to be when I grew up today.

I am not saying they should have medicated me immediately but they could have worked stratagies out with me and put plans into action to help me curb the racing brain. When I was in 3rd through 8th grade I went to ULE once a week and you know those weeks my ULE teacher was there and I was removed from the 24 kids in a class room with the teacher droning on about something I didnt care about and got to learn about what I WANTED to learn about I was not an extreemly different person but I was calmer.

One situation from ULE stands out in my memory. It was sixth grade and the ULE teacher was out sick for almost 3 weeks straight. I swear by that third week my poor teacher had her resignation written up and ready to go.

SO yes I again say If a child was diganosed with an medical pyschological disorder than the PARENT should try everything in their power to help the child cope with out meds but if what they are doing isnt working than meds should be tried lowest doses first of course.

As for other mental issues out there how many kids did you know commit sucide? I knew three personally one since I had been in the second grade who passed away by his own hand when we were 11th graders. If they were on meds would that have saved their life? Maybe but we will never know because that option was never TRIED. How many countless other people need to die if a small simple pill could fix that problem sure it makes the prescription company rich but it also saves a family heartache or if that person has voices telling them to harm other people two or more families. Psycologists cant save us all.